LexRides

jkizzle · cutter Joined: 29 Oct 2007 Posts: 519 Location: I.L.L.

I know there are a few people on here that know how to weld.

I'd like to start being able to fabricate some stuff, eventually moving to stainless steel for some food grade stuff I want to build. Any tips?

Do I need TIG welding equipment for the stainless, or could i get by with lesser equipment?

I have zero experience, so I would probably just follow a video or something, but does anyone reccomend taking a class somewhere on it? I am not looking to become a professional welder or anything, just want to make some hardcore home brew equipment on the cheap.

iridetoobs · Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 8:03 pm Post subject:

though i don't know exactly what all you're making. as a certified welder, i would assume that trying to learn how to weld stainless steel from a video isn't going to help you much. it basically takes lots of practice, and in turn, money. maybe that's not an issue.

you can weld stainless with shielded metal arc welding (smaw) aka stick welding, metal inert gas (mig) aka wire welding, and tungsten inert gas (tig). if you have little to no experience your best option might be stick welding and then maybe mig. stick welders are easier to adjust, in order to use the right amperage, but mig welding is easier as far as the actual welding goes. mig welders can be trickier to adjust cuz you're dealing with setting your wire speed as it feeds out and your voltage. one possible downside to mig welding is that its kinda hard to find spools of wire smaller than 50 or so pounds.

I've recently been asked if i could weld some stainless odds and ends for some people. i too have been trying to figure out how to go about welding up some food grade stainless. if you got questions, hit me up. maybe we could collaborate on something.

oh, and welding fumes from welding stainless steel can kill you if you don't have a respirator with the right type of filters.

jkizzle · cutter Joined: 29 Oct 2007 Posts: 519 Location: I.L.L.

Well, i am basically looking at making conical fermenters for homebrewing, ultimately. I have absolutely no experience welding, and dont have a ton of money (part of why i would rather build them myself instead of buy one prefab'ed - plus stuff is just better when you do it yourself). Eventually me and the 2 guys i brew with would like to install a brewhouse and begin brewing commercially somewhere in kentucky in a couple of years, and one of the biggest hurdles is overcoming the installation costs of welding, plumbing and electrical, so the more we can do ourselves the better.

There is some other stuff like a giant smoker and other things i would like to make that dont need to be stainless food grade that I hope to use to work my way up.

I am guessing that stainless is sort of the creme de la creme of welded metals? Which I guess is going to be real hard for me to just learn real quick haha.

If my goal is food grade stuff, should I go with TIG right off the bat to keep my investment in this as low as possible? Ive read this is more precise, but looks like you said hardest to learn? Stick welders seem to be a lot less expensive and less complicated too, and i guess i dont need ultra precise welds if i am doing this for myself and not for someone else.

iridetoobs · Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 9:04 pm Post subject:

going with tig right off the bat isn't going to be a low investment since tig welders cost the most. you are right that they are more precise. as far as not needing precise welds, depending on the amount and thus the weight of the beer there will be some pressure involved. i dont imagine the pressure would be so great that it would immediately break a weld, but when pressure and welds are involved it's usually important to have a solid weld with no impurities.otherwise, over time, with the heat and contraction of the metal the welds could fail or begin to. if it was me, i would want something that would last. especially if you're going to put in the investment to make up a nice stainless brew set up.

willard · training wheels Joined: 30 Oct 2007 Posts: 42

Be prepared:

Purchasing small amounts of stainless steel in Lexington is going to be difficult and extremly expensive. You may end up having to buy a twenty foot section of pipe even if you only use a few feet.

Pat has addressed the cost of welders and classes, but you also need a chop saw, plasma cutter, grinders, and other expensive tools.

I understand the spirit of wanting to put it together yourself, but if you are worried about cost, you are probably better off just buying the pre-fab'ed equipment.

jkizzle · cutter Joined: 29 Oct 2007 Posts: 519 Location: I.L.L.

well i already have the saws and grinders, and would probably be getting most of my metal from a guy i know in cincinnati, but i hadnt thought of a plasma cutter. thats about the same price as a decent welder, right? Actually a lot of what i would be using would be from premanufactured pieces (cones and drums), so maybe i wouldnt need a plasma cutter.

The fermenters i would be making would be only for 10-12 gallons, so not a great deal of pressure would be involved. They are like 600 bucks though, and i figure tools aside, they could be built for around 200 a piece or less, and id like at least 4 of them, so the savings would be worth it.

I guess i am worried about precision for when doing sanitary non-threaded fittings for the valves and sealing surfaces. a bad seal there could contaminate a whole batch. Would stick welding suffice there?

politicalhero · Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 7:51 am Post subject:

How about you purchase the materials and then pay your fellow bike rider Pat "the welder" (who is a "certified welder") to do the welds for you. This would save you the money of purchasing the welding equipment and you would know that it was done right. Pat spent many years becoming a welder and I think his experience would be better and safer than anything learned from a video.

Pay him in cash or beer, but you will still be able to save money if the raw materials are not too expensive.

Who are you getting the materials from in cinci, listerman?

willard · training wheels Joined: 30 Oct 2007 Posts: 42

I suggested the plasma cutter for pipe sections that are too large to fit into a chop saw. If your sections are pre-cut or small enough to cut with other tools, you won't have any need for it.

Can you post a link to some images of this thing?

You are probably going to want to have this thing TIG welded by someone with experince. MIG would also work, but I wouldn't trust a stick weld.

brokebike · cutter Joined: 21 Oct 2007 Posts: 2434 Location: local

I can think of three welders on here; two of which have already chimed in. Ben Beckett is the third and there may be more.

Bikes, metal and beer. The unholy trinity.
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Ben · hipster Joined: 04 Apr 2008 Posts: 92 Location: Lexington

I think you might be in over your head with this project. In my opinion, you would be better off to have someone weld for you. You said that you have a supplier for the metal, which might cut some cost. Don't let me discourage you from getting a welder and learning how to weld. Just to get a welder and to be able to weld like you want is a little ambitious. Honestly once you get a welder, you will make nothing but scrap metal for a while. As Pat said, this will take time and money. Also, I wouldn't suggest getting a welder from Habor Freight. They are low in price for a reason.

jkizzle · cutter Joined: 29 Oct 2007 Posts: 519 Location: I.L.L.

Tim, that is what i was starting to think. I dont have a personal supplier for the parts I would need, but my uncles buddy has tons of scrap metal i could have to practice on. Listerman's is a resaler, and is not exactly cheap, and since I'd like several of these things so I can hopefully find some from a distributor or something. You said you do 20 gallon batches? How the hell do you ferment all of that?!

I might go ahead and get a welder for the other projects id like to put together and just to learn, but have this done professionally since it is so specific and needs to be done right. A few of you guys might get a message from me in the next few months.

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/diy-conical-fermenter-14855/ is sort of the basis of what i was looking at doing.

Are craftsman welders decent quality? I have heard the horror stories about harbor freight tools. My neighbor said he might be willing to part with one for around $150-200 that is about 5 years old, and Ive never known him to use it.

brokebike · cutter Joined: 21 Oct 2007 Posts: 2434 Location: local

My dad has a Craftsman arc welder that is older than I am... he still uses it a couple times a year maybe, but that don't mean they make 'em like they used to.
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politicalhero · Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 12:01 pm Post subject:

brokebike · cutter Joined: 21 Oct 2007 Posts: 2434 Location: local

...and for a simple brewer, Tim can produce some damn tasty brews, too!
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jkizzle · cutter Joined: 29 Oct 2007 Posts: 519 Location: I.L.L.

Do you get substantial variations in flavor with that? We figure we either need 4 more carboys to ramp up production or have at least 2 large conical fermenters.

Right now we are trying to figure out ways to get consistent flavors with our brews, because we do every other batch as a variation on a basic brown ale/ESB building block recipe that we would eventually like to launch as a commercial brew in Cincinnati. We tweak each batch a little differently, so having consistent flavors is important for comparison.

We need to have a bike and beers with all the homebrewers brews involved!